Best of the ISP-Lists

Telco Dmarc Games

This is just one more method the phone company can use to deny you a customer.

[January 10, 2008]

On the ISP-CLEC list in December, AD asked:

"I have a question on how to proceed with an issue.

We are a small facilities based CLEC with operations in about seven COs in the [New York state] (all Verizon territory). We order circuits from Verizon in order to provide services to our customers. Our CLEC relationship with Verizon is controlled by NYS PSC 10.

When we order a circuit, Verizon installs the circuit to the demarcation point of the floor, building, or campus. It is our responsibility to bring the circuit from the demarcation point to the customer. Clearly, for this to work, we must know where the demarcation point is. Most of the time, the location of the demarcation point is self evident and there are no problems.

However, when the location of the demarcation point is not clear, it creates an untenable situation for us as a CLEC. There is no process whereby Verizon can tell us a demarcation point unless we place the order and payfor the installation of the circuit. However, on occasion, the demarcation point is in a location where we cannot bring the circuit to the customer. In that situation we must pay Verizon for the installation, but cannot complete the circuit and thus cannot generate the revenue from the customer.

The issue is not the location of the demarcation point, since we would simply not accept an order where we could not complete it. The issue is that we must pay Verizon for a circuit that may be unusable.

Verizon has the location of the demarcation point, otherwise they could not terminate the circuit. They simply have no process for us to find out the information prior to placing an order and committing to pay for theinstallation. Verizon has not been cooperative in creating such a process or providing the information.

My question is: What procedure would I use with the NYS PSC to bring this to their attention and have them request or order or whatever Verizon to create a process to be able to identify a demarcation point?

Note: We are a very small CLEC and, however much I would love to hire a fancy Albany law firm, we do not have the funds for that approach.

Any thoughts?"

[MR replied] "We deal with Verizon here in Florida and have had a similar issue. However, I think it may be how you're ordering the circuit (or what type of circuit you're ordering). We order DS1 loops for our customers, and we send a tech to the site beforehand to ensure that backboard and ground are in and proper. We also affix a "Install T1 SmartJack Here for [us]" label where we want it to go.

Now, since Verizon requires us to provide a backboard and ground for a DS1 circuit, they will run it to wherever we specify because that's where we put the ground and backboard. We also specify where the SmartJack is to go on the order itself, and that is never the same as the MPOE for the building.

The only time that we really have this issue anymore is when we order a B1 line, sometimes Verizon will consider the telephone room to be the demark and they will install there. In that case, if there is a block in the customer's suite that has previous Verizon tags on it then we will send them back out with a NDT repair ticket and make them run it to the customer's block. If there was not a previous demarc in the customer's suite, then we install one and do whatever is needed to extend from the phone room.

We've never had a situation where we just couldn't use a circuit that Verizon installed. How does that happen exactly?"

[AD explained] "When we order a UNE circuit (typically T-1) it is installed at the demarcation point for the address on the order—we have no option to tell Verizon where to install it. Normally you can tell where a demarcation point is because it is obvious—but sometimes there is a problem.

Example one—the address is on a campus where there is nothing to indicate if each building has a demarc or just the campus—i.e., each building has what looks like a demarc. But it turns out there is only one demarc for the campus, so the circuit is installed at the campus demarc, even if that is a half mile from the building where we need the circuit. Further, the wires from each building do not go back to the demarc.

Example two—it is a multistory, multi-tenant building where there is no way to tell if each floor has a demarc or there is only one for the building. It turns out there is only one demarc for the building and it's in the basement. The building wiring is owned by the landlord who refuses access except for a large fee.

Verizon's definition of demarc is here [.pdf]:

By the way, we accept that demarcs are confusing and may not always be useable by us—all we are looking for is a way to find out from Verizon where the demarc is, so that we don't order a circuit and find out it is installed where we can't use it.

Verizon has refused to help and will neither provide a process to get the information nor will they provide the information on a case-by-case basis.

[MR pondered] "Wow. We just haven't had that sort of issue. As for the campus issue, it would be the customer's responsibility to do intra-campus wiring in any case and also correct that the ILEC would probably only have one building as MPOE.

On the multi-tenant building issue, it is our understanding that the landlord cannot refuse access to any certificated carrier needing to do crossconnects. That access has to be on an equal-access basis to my knowledge, and we've never had a landlord refuse us access if a tenant requests that it be provided. If you need POWER in the common room, that could be a different story. However, we've always been able to work this sort of thing out with the landlord; they're the one that will get a black eye if we can't install for their tenant. However, if you're ordering a DS1 circuit I think Verizon will extend it to the location where you want it; you just need to have the ground and backboard there, and make sure the order you place has the exact location in the comments section. Always works for us.

We do use an ordering consultant for all of these types of orders. I'll be happy to provide his info to you if you ping me off-list. That could very well be the reason that we have such good luck-sometimes it's all in who you know.

[MK added] "Keep good files of all of your communications and troubles (noted) w/ that beast of a VZ... make a nice, well organized very large binder."

[FG recommended] "You may want to talk to the telecom staff at the PSC. Demarcation is one of those things that varies state to state, and I have a vague recollection of New York's being a bit of an outlier. The FCC set a guideline about MPOE, but there remain some state interpretations, especially dealing with embedded wire. ILECs are required to lease their on-premise wire (risers) as UNEs, in cases where the MPOE is not where you want it and there's an existing riser."

— End